Author Topic: Crazy, all powerful, or just misunderstood? An open discussion  (Read 2664 times)

carelesswhisper

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Re: Crazy, all powerful, or just misunderstood? An open discussion
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2013, 01:00:03 PM »
I agree that it's quite prevalent in the series, but just look at how the others view Nyika.  Of all of them, Istvan is the only one who really believes in her powers.  Zevka isn't making a judgement one way or another, Poko thinks she's nuts, but most of them just can't quite believe because it's not proven for them.  I think if it were a common occurrence, the majority of them would be more quick to accept her claims.  There are also quite a few seers (all vermin, I believe) in the books that are acknowledged to be fake, or at least, not on the same level as, say, Polleekin. 

Balmafula

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Re: Crazy, all powerful, or just misunderstood? An open discussion
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2013, 01:15:27 PM »
Yeah, BJ usually goes out of his way to say that the vermin seers are fake. Grissoul is an exception, though. If anything, it seems like she is genuine. Think about it, there is no way she could have known the exact time and date that Tagg and his father would have been by the river for one thing. But even though her powers are real, some of the other vermin in the tribe consider it mumbo-jumbo anyway. There will always be skeptics.

This kind of thing IS common in the series, but the series spans so many hundreds of seasons that it's still probably very rare. But it exists, is what I'm trying to say, so it's not that unusual that somebeast would possess it.

Goragula

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Re: Crazy, all powerful, or just misunderstood? An open discussion
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2013, 01:43:19 PM »
But magic isn't an everyday occurence in the books - it's a rare thing, but extremely powerful when it does occur. I can't think of a single example of a prophecy in Redwall that does not turn out to be true - you can all correct me if I'm wrong, because it's been a long time since I've read them - but generally, visions of ghosts, prophecies, dreams and riddles are treated as a rare, incredibly powerful event.

So, why don't the rest of the cast respect Istvan and Nyika's beliefs? Well, allow me to be a little cynical here, but it might be the 21st Century ideals of the authors being projected onto their own writing. It's hard for us in our day and age to accept that once, religion, magic and the afterlife were taken as a concrete fact by nearly the entire population. And of course, Redwall is a different universe, so we don't have to pay as much care to historical accuracy when writing this. In any case, neither Nyika or Istvan can be blamed for how the other writers have chosen to react to them. Personally, I found Zevka's "Pascal's Wager" post in Week One far more uncanon (and anachronistic) than anything Nyika or Istvan have come up with. Whether or not religion is canon, superstition is rife in Redwall and even the most scholarly characters don't blink an eyelid at it.

Secondly, it often happens in real life that a culture that may believe in the supernatural refuses to accept it when they see it face to face. Perhaps in the context of this story, events from Redwall canon are just the stuff of legends, and the characters either take the supernatural events with a pinch of salt or see it as some sort of 'lost mythic age.' I think it's very likely that somebody who takes the spirit of Martin for granted might dismiss somebody who claims to see ghosts, simply because of the contrast between legendary stories and everyday life. It's a case of "This is only supposed to happen in the movies!"

I'm going to put it out there, though, that I'm absolutely convinced that everything is in Nyika's head. As for Istvan, he uses his faith as an armour, and copes with his loneliness (geez is that guy lonely) by using it to reassure himself that everyone else is wrong. *shrug* Or at least that's how I read it. It's interesting, though, how Istvan and Nyika both retreat into (potentially) subconsciously created worlds to cope with their own isolation. Worlds in which they're both top dog. I think that's a large part of why they have bonded, and become such a fascinating duo for me to read.


EDIT: Sorry, I only saw Balmafula's response after I wrote this!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2013, 01:47:21 PM by Goragula »
:goragula: What does a toad with a BA in Literature say?

... Do you want flies with that?

TNT

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Re: Crazy, all powerful, or just misunderstood? An open discussion
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2013, 10:19:59 PM »
I'm just gonna say (mostly off-topic): Is it weird that like. I think the best choice for the final death, story-wise, would be Nyika? And really, since all the authors are so evenly matched that voting is so difficult, it is literally just because it would be the saddest and most crushing one possible? Because like. Most everyone has basically sworn to protect her, essentially. I just think it would strike such a crazy dramatic blow to the top three, whoever they may be. Not that other deaths wouldn't, obviously! Has anyone ever voted for a death based on the story rather than the author before? Am I crazy for even bringing this up? Probably.

(To be clear, I do plan on reading ALL week six posts and making my decision then. I'm not throwing Nyika on the chopping block prematurely, I promise! XP)
"I don't understand the question, and I won't respond to it." - Arrested Development

Nyika

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Re: Crazy, all powerful, or just misunderstood? An open discussion
« Reply #19 on: September 30, 2013, 07:08:57 AM »

TNT

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Re: Crazy, all powerful, or just misunderstood? An open discussion
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2013, 02:44:16 PM »
Here, kitty. We're just going to go for a ride in the car. Just a nice little ride. That's all, I promise. Would I lie? :D
"I don't understand the question, and I won't respond to it." - Arrested Development

Matra Hammer

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Re: Crazy, all powerful, or just misunderstood? An open discussion
« Reply #21 on: September 30, 2013, 07:25:06 PM »
Here's an out-of-topic review. Nyika: avoid the following vehicle.



The Tara inside does not have any candy, comic books, or hugs. Not the kind you'd want anyways.

Back on topic: I'd like to thank everyone for their opinions on matters magical, theoretical, and marshmallowickle. My initial impressions on the importance (and development) of whether or not they're crazy, mystical, etc is thoroughly muddled. I assure you this is a good thing. May even save a character or two from the candy van...