The Next Contest

[Nallmian 2.0]

Although Mossflower Odyssey obviously still has some good storytelling left in it, I figure that it is getting to be that time when we need to start thinking and talking about the next contest. Does anybody here currently have specific plans to do one? If not, what kinds of ideas would people be interested in seeing as story themes? How widely should we advertise this? What kind of timeframe might we be looking at? This is pretty much just an open thread for discussing this subject, so have at it!

[Balmafula]

I definitely want to see another contest after this one. I've got a few ideas rattling around, but nothing super concrete yet. I would say to wait until around November to start the next contest, though. The rational reason for this is to at least give a little downtime in between contests so people don't get burned out. The more selfish reason is that I'll be around and able to apply.

[Matra Hammer]

I don't have the know-how or experience for running a contest but I'm all for participating in another one. Reviewing and watching the story change has been fun but I really wanna see if I earn a spot in the cast next time around.

As far as suggestions go? Hmm...

This contest's tame R rating feels like the right route and judging by our final four I'd wager most of you agree. The violence is all justified, sexuality is addressed but not focused on for its own sake, and I'm not sure I've seen a single swear word. Scat and Damn and the like but nothing abrasive. Then again I've never participated in any other contests so I may be missing the virtues of a PG or G contest.

I really like that this contest is taking Mossflower and adding new angles. There's a real delight in watching a group of writers expand upon non-canon locations like Yew and Carrigul while still keeping the link with the Mossflower we all know and love. Heck, I could watch a new cast wiggle their way through the death trap that is Carrigul...if Poko and Friends don't blow the damn place up.

Timing and advertising is beyond me. Really don't know what works best or the landscape of the current Redwall fandom. Which makes me wonder how I'll even know when another contest involving this group shows up. How much should be advertised? Well, I like this group. New blood is always welcome (I wouldn't be here if it wasn't) but everyone here is forward thinking and talented. No landslides in the cast. Mostly tame discussions. Yeah. T'would be nice for everyone involved in this contest to make another appearance.

Also...

*coughpiratethemecough*

[carelesswhisper]

wait, wait, wait.  The official rating is R?  For real?  Because no one has even vaguely pushed that.  And as I've mentioned before, I would SO much rather see "####" than "scat".  Scat brings only two things to mind for me, and we all know they're not referencing jazz.  I realize that the word itself is being used appropriately, but the associations I make with it absolutely ruin it every single time it is used.  EVERY TIME. 

Please, guys, please... think carefully before you use that word.  Please?

(And maybe I'm just a perv for being aware of such things, in which case, whatevs.)

EDIT:  lawl I suppose the censoring has everything to do with it.  Still, if it's R, shouldn't it be censored to THAT degree and not PG to PG-13?  And why is damn okay?  Damn seems worse to me.

[Istvan]

I wasn't aware of anything about an official rating, to be honest. Though I'm willing to bet that we're nowhere in the PG range.

I don't recall there ever being a contest that strictly pushed for a PG/G rating, but there was an NC-17 one at one point. Ah, that was interesting...

[Matra Hammer]

I don't know anything about an official rating. I'm calling it R because I'm not sure how else you categorize death, dismemberment, mutilation, mayhem, drinking, etc.

[Istvan]

The norm for the Redwall books?

[Matra Hammer]

Fair enough. For a children's series Jacques liked his impaling and heroic battles. Since I really don't care about how the contest's content is labeled I'll reform my statement:

This contest handles its mature themes really well and I'd suggest the next contest stays on the same track. The violence is all justified, sexuality is addressed but not focused on for its own sake, and I'm not sure I've seen a single curse used without purpose. I've never participated in any other contests so I may be missing the benefits of cutting any violence, sexuality, etc to a bare minimum.

[Goragula]

wait, wait, wait.  The official rating is R?  For real?  Because no one has even vaguely pushed that.  And as I've mentioned before, I would SO much rather see "####" than "scat".  Scat brings only two things to mind for me, and we all know they're not referencing jazz.  I realize that the word itself is being used appropriately, but the associations I make with it absolutely ruin it every single time it is used.  EVERY TIME.

Hahaha, you're right there. I thought scat was a funny alternative but the connotations are way, way worse than the real life equivalent.

Would anybody here be actively opposed to a more adult themed survivor contest? With real swearing and sexual content and the like? It seems to me that nearly everyone here is at least 18, most more about 25 or so, so I'm not entirely sure why it's such a taboo. Is it because we don't want to corrupt the starting material - that the more 'delicate' subjects of real life simply don't belong in Redwall? Or because we're squicked out by furry sex? Or because we're scared of going too far and offending our readers?

I know I was uncertain of what limits to go to. To be honest, when I drafted nearly all of Goragula's dialogue, it was full of the worst kinds of language, because that's how I imagined him ... then I had to edit it out. I don't know. Perhaps that shows that swearing is not necessary, but I think there is a certain power behind starred-out words that you really can't get from the tamer versions. I do realise that just because I'm not offended by it doesn't mean other people aren't -- I'm just curious whether anyone here really is upset by it, or whether we're just assuming that it's a no-go zone?

Swearing and sexual content don't bother me at all, compared to excessive violence (yes I know that I am guilty of this too), but blood and guts is barely blinked at all. *shrug* What if somebody ran a human survivor contest? That might make it more comfortable for those of us who want to write more mature fiction. Or at least a non-Redwall themed contest, if we're all attached to fuzzy critters. It might be difficult to advertise for, but I'm sure there are plenty of writing forums out there. And I actually like how small this community is.

At any rate ... I'm ... not sure I want to write in another contest. I have a character I want to write, but I just don't know I suit the whole contest dynamic. And I've been trying to start my own novel for the last six months. XD

BUT! I kiiiiind of have a scenario idea that I'm interested in seeing (need to make sure it hasn't been done already), so unless anybody else is raring to go, I'd actually be interested in running the next contest. I'm not sure I have the know-how to do it myself though, so if anyone else is interested, PM meeeeee?

[Balmafula]

Hmm. The way I see it, sex isn't really hidden, it's just not focused on because it doesn't really need to be. There's a lot of hinting and innuendo in contests even if they don't out and out talk about boinking each other. Beechton and his 'conquests.' Tikora and her possible invitation to let Nyika sleep in bed with her. Those are only in the last week.

I find the problem with actively advertising for a mature/adult contest is that people feel they then NEED to have excessive swearing and sex, when that shouldn't be so. Swears, particularly some of them that I can't write because of that silly filter (which really shouldn't be there) are much stronger in print than they are spoken, and I think it could lend a lot of power to a scene, but it could also easily come across as immature or forced. And I don't want to hear any details on sex, not really. Having it present and a thing? Fine. Describing very sexual things and primarily focusing on them? No. I'm not interested in reading about it in books about humans or animals. It's hard for me to read about without devaluing it or making it sound cheesy and silly.

Being able to address both should be okay, but it shouldn't be there just because it can be, if that makes any sense.

I have to say I'm not really interested in just a contest with humans, unless there's another draw to it. For example, a contest based on Final Fantasy Tactics would be so cool. Instead of species categories, you could have job categories! But I'd prefer to write animals and I'd prefer to not make it a strict R rating but just quietly take away the rating system altogether so that nobody makes a fuss.

[Goragula]

Yeah, this contest has been fairly liberal in that front anyway - just the right level, really. I suppose it just bothers me that (not just the ROC) but as a whole people are absolutely fine with writing about violence and all manner of horrible things that people do to one another, but as soon as sex is described in any detail it's immediately either cringey or pornographic. It really doesn't have to be! In fact, some of the most emotive writing I've ever read has been about sex. I'll agree that it's extremely hard to get right though.

Actually, that's a very valid point about openly advertising "adult content" as just inviting people to take advantage of it. I didn't think of that, and I definitely wouldn't want that either, but I would still like to encourage people not to feel inhibited about writing what they really want to write. An "if you think you can pull it off, go for it!" sort of policy. If it doesn't work, then people will say so, right?

I threw out the idea of a contest with humans just to see what people thought of it. It would be interesting to see the same format used in an entirely different setting and genre, plus there are a lot of restrictions in the Redwall universe. It was only a suggestion though, and I'm not really too keen on it either. I'm quite happy to carry on writing about cute furry animals ugly warty animals with swords!

[Istvan]

The interesting thing about these contests is that word count-wise (and quality, I would say) they're on the level of a rather long novel. If we were to do a contest not attached to any previously existing work, it would open up a lot of options about publishing and intellectual property questions and all that good stuff. Which would be interesting, but we would definitely have to consider those factors.

[TNT]

Bear in mind that Redwall's Legacy is trying to run a contest after this one. It's strictly PG, though, so I'm not sure how many people here would be interested. All's I'm saying is to just not forget it exists and immediately dismiss it. I think for it to go ahead there will likely have to be a lot of participation from the people here, because the people on that site, as well as sites full of a new generation of ROCers, like redwallabbey.com, just don't quite seem to get contests. Or they're just not interested in writing anything other than RPs and fanfics. I've tried advertising at places like that in the past and I just seem to get a lot of head scratching and confusion in reply.

As for the rating on this site, I have already relaxed it quite a bit. Gave you an inch, and now you want a mile, eh? ;P

While the language doesn't bother me, either, I think words like [not scat but similar] don't really fit into the Redwall universe, as it were? I think some swearing is fine, if it fits, and if it enhances the story, but I don't see the need to drop the f-bomb or anything. These stories are definitely more mature than the source material, but that doesn't mean we need to ignore the fact that the source material was intended for children. Plus, I really would hate to turn someone away from contests just because of the rating. Some people really just are uncomfortable with strong language. Gotta remember and respect their feelings, too. That's why I relaxed the swearing rules a bit, but not entirely. There's got to be a happy medium somewhere.

[foxpen]

So long as people don’t write shock for the sake of shock, then I really don’t see a problem. What’s left of the ROC is very mature, and our greatest writers, these veterans and daring new-comers of the survivor contests are talented to the point where I won’t even worry about tastelessness. I think it would a welcome change to a finely aged ROC. Sex, violence, and swearing don’t HAVE to happen, but if it does, then it’s not shocking or offensive. . I think it would be a welcome change to a finely aged ROC to give authors the opportunity to wield this sword and show that we can wield it responsibly.

Humans? Eh. It’s not a challenge that excites me (and I DO believe it would challenge me, hurrhurr). I find that with animals, they can be cartoonish and you can get away with it. Species-related quirks can transfer to the animal and be highly entertaining in any scenario. I just I’m more satisfied with role-playing animals. Humans, we’re boring. I already deal with humans every day.

If there is going to be another competition, and eventually there will be, than I really do think it should be held after the New year. Not during, not before, but after. The reason is very simple, and I hope you guys will agree. Fact is, November and December are two very busy months not just for students but for businesses. People start their home renovations around this time in order to prepare for visiting guests, so they work more. Grabbing more shifts isn’t a problem because it’s also holiday shopping time, which people are strongly compelled to do, and that takes time and effort. Family time is arranged. Students from junior school all the way to post-secondary are preparing final projects and exams.

[Balmafula]

Although I still think that now is not a good time to start another contest... it's an excellent time to start planning for the next one.

I know Goragula said he had some ideas. Is anybody interested in running the next contest or have an idea of a setting that they'd love to see or write in?