black holes and revelations ;D
Now that we're getting out of the caves again, what does everyone want to see in the story? Why are you reading it? Are you looking for romance plots, or high adventure? Political intrigue? A mystery, or a war, or a war mystery?
What do you want to see become of each character, even the NPCs?
I found out today that the story I want to tell with Revel isn't necessarily the story you want to read. A lot of people have been telling me I need to do more things. But what? What is Revel supposed to be doing? Because I see her doing things. I see the layers of her personality, and the subtleties of her situation, and every time I try to draw them out, I'm told I need to do things and interact with the other PCs. What is she supposed to accomplish out of this, for you?
I see her heading in a very specific direction. No, she's not the main character of the plot. But with leads like Venril, Eliza and Bellona, do you need Revel to be? Why must she do things, and interact with characters she has no business with and no desire to be with? Wouldn't that be contradictory? What if I can't draw out the right parts of her personality by talking to PCs? What if the only PC character in the story that could ever do for Revel what Zhipzi has done died in week 1? ???
I want to write a story people want to read. The nature of the contest demands that what I write be about Revel. I can't just drop her and write about Nivard, even if he fits better in the story. Please tell me, where does Revel fit in the story that you want?
Honestly, I like the way you've been writing Revel. I really don't see how she could be written differently, without a complete personality mutation. I would most certainly not like for you to write for Nivard. He does his role as a supporting character, but he is not really developed enough to make a mid-contest switch worthwhile.
I am looking for war mystery sprinkled liberally with romance and high adventure! And political intrigue, I guess, although I don't see much room for that seeing as there isn't much in the way of a government out in the desert...
No, seriously, my unhelpful and unexpert but sincere advice to you is to do what you want. All I can say is that I like where Revel is in the story right now, and I like the small hints you've given us of her past during her time in the caves. Maybe that's not satisfying enough for you, and I'm sorry. :( But really, I doubt anyone is going to crucify you for not writing Revel exactly the way they want you to.
Readers/reviewers can tell you what they think about where the story is right now, and vague hopes about where it will go, and likewise about the characters. But I doubt anyone has anything really solid in mind as far as the exact direction things can be taken. That is up to you contestants. We're just along for the ride! D: And I don't know that I can speak for everyone else here, but we will follow wherever you choose to take us.
So, in conclusion, I want Revel to fit into the story in a way that's natural for her character and for you as the writer of her character. It's like when you ask someone what they want for their birthday and they say, "I want you to surprise me."
Quote from: Revel on November 20, 2009, 03:15:57 AM
black holes and revelations ;D
I see her heading in a very specific direction. No, she's not the main character of the plot. But with leads like Venril, Eliza and Bellona, do you need Revel to be? Why must she do things, and interact with characters she has no business with and no desire to be with? Wouldn't that be contradictory? What if I can't draw out the right parts of her personality by talking to PCs? What if the only PC character in the story that could ever do for Revel what Zhipzi has done died in week 1? ???
As you said, she doesn't have to be the lead, but why couldn't she interact with the other main characters? She has actually become articulate with Eliza. Sure, they are not friends, but maybe Revel could help break up the lover's triangle by taking Venril as a friend. Eliza has already made it clear she wants neither male.
Bellona could become another aide to the more feminine side of Revel, which you have exposed.
I agree with Sparrowhawk. I want to read the story that you want to tell. All I wanted from this Round was for everyone to get out of the caves, as I felt that situation was getting rather stale. And lo, you are out of the caves! I'd much rather be surprised by the authors' creativity than dictate what I want them to do. If I wanted that I would just, you know, write my own darn story!
As for Revel, I have no huge complaints. I admit to liking her interactions with Eliza, Rath, and Venril more than those with the NPCs. But at the same time I've also greatly enjoyed Revel's dealings with Zhipzi, and I don't think there was single other character that could have gotten Revel to (somewhat) deal with the reality of her pregnancy. All Revel really needs is balance. In all my notes on Revel's posts I've written pretty much the same thing: Revel can't spend too much time alone, and I sometimes worry about her becoming isolated (though lately this hasn't been as much of a problem).I find the inside of Revel's mind fascinating, but I also like seeing the other main characters coming into contact with that mind.
That song is forever ruined by the fact that Lucette chose it as the loev theam~ for my manic-depressive necromancer and her widowed sister-in-law.
Really, Sparrowhawk said it best; your readers can only offer conjectures, or wishes at this point-- the best way for any character to go is the way that feels most natural for them and for the writer.
Steel Cage Match between Bellona and Rath for the Pirates Belt. Make it happen.
Quote from: Stonewall on November 21, 2009, 01:54:46 PM
Steel Cage Match between Bellona and Rath for the Pirates Belt. Make it happen.
XD How did you read our minds, Stonewall, sir?! Granted, it was going to be for the Golden Coconut Title, but still!
Seriously, though. Thanks for the input, sirs and m'ams. We just sometimes get worried when we don't see a lot of commentary on the boards (positive or otherwise). We're insecure little writers.
Thank you, everyone. I have to apologize... I was getting whiny at the end there and I didn't mean to. Was just having a really bad day. What I meant to ask was more along the lines of what do you want to see everyone in the story do? Not just Revel. As nice as it is to say "just write what you want", it's not very helpful if there's anything upsetting or wrong about a character that you want to see changed. Someone has told me that they don't like the love triangle because it's unrealistic that Venril and Damask should be so infatuated with Eliza because of her scars. If little things like that are pulling down the quality of the story, please tell us! Tell us what kind of outcome you would be interested in. A lot of things are up in the air still. Even if we try to write what we want, sometimes we just can't think of it, or don't like it as much afterward, than some things that an audience can suggest...
The things I want to know are like... do you want to see Venril and Revel hook up at the end? Do you want to see Bellona's heart break over Revel's kits? Do you want to see Eliza spurn her suitors away by pretending to go after Rath? Things like that. What would interest you, if you could have just one thing?
Quote from: Revel on November 21, 2009, 11:08:04 PM
What I meant to ask was more along the lines of what do you want to see everyone in the story do? Not just Revel.
My first concern is what happens outside the cave. If the vermin are still in control, we go back to the slave pit, regardless of what the captain said. As Eliza stated, if they want to go home, they need wood and slaves. If the woodlanders have regained the oasis, will that mean the execution or the expulsion of the vermin? With all but two characters classified as vermin, it could be damaging to most of the participants.
Can we expect honor from a captain who is scheming with Eliza? What will happen if somebody mentions Revel and the death of the hedgehog's family back home?
If we are going to remain with the main characters, how will the triangle be resolved? Is Venril's rival really dead? Will the bird remain loyal to the dollar? Can Bellona become a powerful leader? Of course the biggest question for Revel is about the time of her confinement, aka - when is she due?
Other side issue questions. What ever happened to the treasure? What about the two factions within the cave? Did the squirrle captain die of a disease or something else? Will it spread outside?
Yes, I know I'm only posing questions and offering no real solutions. But these are the threads you have woven and left unfinished. Figure out which should be resolved first and then work on one or two in each week.
Quote from: Revel on November 21, 2009, 11:08:04 PM
Someone has told me that they don't like the love triangle because it's unrealistic that Venril and Damask should be so infatuated with Eliza because of her scars. If little things like that are pulling down the quality of the story, please tell us!
I agree!
I'd also like to say that it's a tad unnerving that someone doesn't like the love triangle and doesn't seem to have mentioned it to anyone that's actually
in the love triangle.
Don't be afraid to offer criticism, guys! If you think something's unrealistic, feel free to let us know!
(And, hey, at least the males aren't shallow, right? ;p )
Objection, yer honors!
I actually addressed the scars in my first wooing post! Damask adores the maid in spite if the scars, not because of them! (And wishes bodily harm to the beast responsible. That's it, Damask, you find that architect that built the manor she was in and give him what for.)
See? Proof positive she needs to choose the birdy. :rufelle: *steals a Rufey-bird*
(And, again, thanks to you folks for talking with/to/at us!)
@ Revel: My biggest concern with Revel was that she had nothing to accomplish, no end goal to work towards. That isn't to say she wasn't interesting, far from it; her perception of the world and what is going on, and the way that you write it, is very well done and enjoyable. But the problem is, if she is just existing and going through the motions, without trying to get anything done, then it's like driving a really cool car that can only rev it's engine, but not get anywhere. With Revel's infatuation with Eliza and trying to be like her, she now has something to work towards, giving her a reason to stick around.
Thank you, Stonewall! It's nice to see my own thoughts reflected in a reader. I was worrying about it, and couldn't decide if that was really the problem I was having.
And thank you Cairn, both for voicing your concerns about the story and the reviews you've given me over PM. I've been too busy too reply to them fully, but I'm still looking forward them!
Quote from: Revel on November 28, 2009, 04:36:33 AM
And thank you Cairn, both for voicing your concerns about the story and the reviews you've given me over PM. I've been too busy too reply to them fully, but I'm still looking forward them!
It is good knowing they are helpful. As always, the readers don't know the planning done on the story behind the scenes. But we can express our expectations.
A few people have mentioned they are liking my "clean" writing lately. That's great to hear! But I also fear that maybe my writing in the first half of the story wasn't liked as much? Certainly there are pros and cons to both styles. What's your opinion? Mine is in spoilers. :P
I like my earlier style better, especially the first two posts. There's a depth I feel, to the narrative that I just haven't had time to apply to my last few posts. In comparison, my last posts feel very empty of vibrancy. They feel dull and stiff, cutting out delightful twists of phrase that I had much joy in creating at first. To hear that people like the new style is a little disheartening because I don't think it's as good. Its certainly servicable, but nothing I'd look back on and read for the wonder of language. It seems like "fanservice" writing where its just the bare bones of a scene, like reading a script of a movie. Maybe the simplicity is what is pleasing for readers?
I have always liked your writing; it is always fun and interesting, and it is certainly done in a different style than the writings/fanfics I usually read. It's a different approach.
To me, your writing has improved; I feel that Revel has become more involved with the other characters, and also is showing a broader range of emotion. Earlier it had seemed like Revel wasn't quite fully aware of what was going on before hand and was partly in her own world before hand (not that I didn't like it at all - I loved it!), and it still is that way, but less so, so she's got a foot in both worlds.
Also with the emotions, it's nice to see that she can also show fear, anger, and annoyance, and especially when she was was guiding the otter to the hut; that was a new Revel.
'kay, I'll come clean (so to speak). For whatever my lone opinion's worth, I did love old-Revel style of writing, all that layered, moody, shifting, whimsical description - more perhaps, than I like this new stuff. I think the character wore it well, that style of prose - it almost seemed to become a part of her.
And I stick by what I said earlier, about you doing what feels best for you. If you're not enjoying or happy with what you put out, I don't think it will be long before the audience begins to feel the same about it. I know people were complaining earlier about lack of interaction, lack of development - but I don't feel that you're lacking on those fronts, not now and hopefully not in the future. I trust you as a writer to do what's best for the story while maintaining your freedom of expression. And I realize that perhaps some fundamental part of this contest is catering to the audience, but still it doesn't seem right that you should be posting stuff you don't like. That's not the point.
So, if you survive and i really want you to survive, maybe more than anyone else in this contest I encourage you to return, if you feel it suits Revel's needs, to that richer style. I mean whatever you do, at this point, you're probably golden. It's cool that you're listening to the audience and all, but I feel like as long as we can understand basically what is happening in your posts you're free to construct them to your own preference.
I really did prefer the Old Revel as well. The odd, semi-creepy way everything "looked" from her perspective was quite amazing.
Of course, it being the last(?) week of the contest, it's probably too late to make any changes.
:'( You guys make me happy. Thank you!
Haha, part of what may be making the prose simpler is that nothing has been going very well for her at all. Happy-Revel's prose is different from being-beaten-up-Revel's prose? :P
Oddly enough, beaten-up-Revel's prose seems more, ah, "normal" than happy-Revel. I dunno, maybe she took a blow to the head during the beating-up process that recessed her formerly prevalent animalism somewhat.
I have a feeling motherhood has affected our stoat. In the earlier posts, Revel had just one interest, herself. Note how at the end of this last chapter, she is wondering about the one kit that is missing.
QuoteOf course, it being the last(?) week of the contest
Nope... still a week of writing left before the vote for the top three, and then perhaps even a little more to finish up? So we've still got time!
Quote from: Cairn Destop on December 15, 2009, 11:30:29 AM
I have a feeling motherhood has affected our stoat. In the earlier posts, Revel had just one interest, herself. Note how at the end of this last chapter, she is wondering about the one kit that is missing.
Aww, I really gotta stop reading these posts before I catch up with the story . . .