Vizon's Feedback

[Vizon]

Here are some pretty quick first impressions of the initial apps posted, as I know people like to get feedback and see how folks are perceiving what they?ve written.

First, because I want to give feedback even to those already chosen ?

the Judges Picks:

Vanessa Fern: Little bit of a clich? character, but written well enough. I wonder what she?s like sober?

Gashrock: Nice to have some NPC?s already. I like the dialog in this one ? good banter. Lots of potential character development with the implied lack of recognition by Pyracantha. Now that she?s for sure survived, perhaps she?ll gain a little more attention from the fox leader.

Goragula: ?Ooooooo,? I said aloud after reading this one. What a delightfully despicable character! I LOVE this bad guy! Two things that still bother me though ? toads DO have eyelids, for one, and the other is?he?s an amphibian?in the snow. How is he going to continue to be as threatening when he can?t move any faster than a sloth?

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Now for the other reviews.


Dewhurst Players ? Wow almost all ferrets! AND clowns!

Vist: Hey I once owned a character that had the name Fistal. I thought I?d made it up but I guess it?s a real family name.

?Reng glowered as he applied a large smile onto his glowering features?

This would be a wonderful descriptive sentence if it wasn?t confused by the name swap.
I was startled by the sudden burst of violence from a character that seemed not to even want to fight minutes before. But hey, love-struck fools can be unpredictable.

Risk: Oh ? why?s he covered in mud, I wonder?
?oiled pebbles between a vixen?s thighs?? I?m sorry?that just made me laugh. Bit of a shock to see such an??intimate? description in the middle of this scene, heh heh!  Anyway?how often do you hear oiled pebbles between anyone?s thighs to assume it is a universally understood description? Kind of a strange choice of words is all I?m sayin?.
It?s a bit hard to follow all of this, though everything is pretty well explained by the end (what?s going on, that is). Risk is a caring killer? It is hard to tell?

Poko:  Ah, a young?un!
Where is this ? is this Yew? Well maybe it doesn?t matter.
?Frisk the ferret fruitlessly? is not easy to say!
Scent is often not taken into account ? although animals often communicate largely through scent.
I have to wonder?WHAT is in that spray? D:

Shortstack: Ah, finally a non-ferret! Though still very close to a ferret...and the app begins with a ferret anyway, ha ha! There are plenty of ferrets in Pyracantha?s troupe from the sound of things!
Nice set-up. And I?m intrigued at the idea of a dwarf stoat character. And a sinister one at that. Sounds like the toad, but a little less believably intimidating.
Whoa ? an otter?s TAIL around his neck? It must just be the very tip?cause otters have very thick, heavy tails (rudder tails, right?).  It?d be like holding a giant fat anaconda around your neck if it was the whole tail?and either way ? a very bloody mess. It must just be the tip I?m guessing?and staunched somehow?

Yew Guards:

Grainger: I?m losing track of who?s who with all these names! I had to scroll up and down to figure out who was who and what species. I think after re-reading it ? that Top IS Grainger? I think?
It was a nice bit of excitement, but a bit chaotic. Did Grainger take Ayer?s place in the end? Hard to tell.

Istvan:  I really dig how this one starts out ? very nice, thoughtful intro.
Ha ha! I love how the fox?s words all run together.

?It would make a poor sacrifice, but even the maltreated blood of any four legged creature was preferable to the fish and occasional birds he had been reduced to.?

I thought for sure he was going to lick up the blood himself from this phrase! Since he didn?t?I?m guessing he?s been making sacrifices to the earth? Yikes?bit of a scary blighter?

Ben Slider: Lots of inner thoughts and not a lot of action. Not that that?s a bad thing - action can be overused - but it might be nice to see how this otter interacts with others. 
A noble, sympathetic character that cannot be touched. Sounds pretty self-sacrificing?but I wonder how long a sickly otter can survive a game like this? And would he infect everyone else?

Maxine Honeydouble: Yay a badger! Is she a HONEYBADGER???
Dialog was a little hard to follow at first. If after ?Are you wearing clothes? Are your weapons sharp?? it had been indicated that the badger had interrupted the Hedgehog, it would have helped clarify who as saying what.
Overall though, I really like the presentation of this character. She sounds like a fun one. Well done!

Captain Noonahootin: Oh good ? I like that there?s a bird application. Nice bit with the ?backwards head,? heh heh! It helps the owl seem a little less intimidating, that the robin is able to make this remark at all. The robin?s cheerful dialog shows the captain?s a decently patient fellow.
Oh no! ?It is what it is???? That?s a very  modern (and pet peevish) phrase for a medieval owl to use? :P
Great app, imo. It would be quite reasonable for a bird to survive the fall from the mountain pass since they probably would be flying anyway, but then, being birds, they could fly back to Yew to get help and be safe and not ?stuck? like all the other beasts will be in this story. With a free-flying bird, the survivors won?t be isolated or left to die off one by one I?d think?though perhaps the writers could find a way to ground the owl too. Completely plausible.

Merchants:

Nyika: Ah, another teen.
I thought at first that she was looking to some hidden helper for guidance concerning info on the vixen, but it looks like she?s really talking to a ghost? I think? A ghost that wouldn?t tell her his name?
Not sure. Interesting idea, but I think we learned more about the vixen customer than about Nyika in this app!

Alder Flint: A mouse! Someone was saying they missed having mice?
Nice character development. Usually woodlander creatures ? especially mice, are not so flawed! I like that he?s flawed.  I?d guess the son would be a necessary NPC if Alder Flint were to make it into the story. But then, as a newcomer who hasn?t read the past survivor stories, I wonder what happens to the son if the father is voted off? I guess they?d both have to die? Or maybe the other writers would just take over the son as an extra character? (sorry this part is not as much of a ?review? as my own personal wonderings)
Terrence Wellspiller: Another teen!
Oh I love that this guy?s a barber (sort of). A nice normal occupation! Nice level of simple domestic drama. I hope this guy gets in ? he seems a nice little chap. Well-written.

Pollux: A haunted war veteran stoat. I like this exchange ? it?s very sympathetic. Kind of a real-world feel to it ? two enemy soldiers meeting long after the war. But I also have to wonder ? how is Pollux a merchant? And what was in the letter? Nice descriptions, btw.

Zevka Blackbriar: Playful banter. Nice flow. A bit of history and a different species. It seems to be a pair rather than an individual. I wonder if this already formed pair would hamper further friendships within the story? And if the wildcat was killed in the fall, what does that leave us with in the pine marten? We know from this app how she relates to the wildcat, Mekad, and a tiny bit of history. This character could go anywhere. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing.

[Vizon]

My conclusions...

Dewhurst Players:

1 Poko - I think this character could play well off of the already chosen characters (as a costume-changer, she would appreciate Gashrock's talents, and as a pickpocket she could get in some real trouble with the toad). Also it would be interesting if her parents don't make it. She'd almost be forced to bond with another beast as a surrogate, and that'd help the overall story.

2 Vist - Could play any role, really...and he's got a vicious streak.

3 Shortstack - though I find the tail collecting absurd, most of this was well-written. Only ranking him below Vist because Goragula already exists and is a better loan shark. If Shortstack does make it in, I'm sure he'll be happy if his ferret competitor died in the fall. Maybe that would cheer him up a bit. :D

4 Risk reminds me too much of newbie warrior characters I used to see walking around the ROC who kill easily and seem to be a bit invincible, so I'm putting him last. Also the awkward "oily pebbles" phrase is not something I'd want to see more of.

Yew Guards:

1 Ben Slider - I'm a sucker for tragic heroes. He's got a history and a HUGE flaw that would be interesting to see how it plays out.

2 Captain Noonahootin - The writing was fun to follow and the character seems like a pretty nice guy. I'd like to see more.

3 Maxine Honeydouble - I liked her just as much as Noonahootin, but listed her at 3...admittedly because I read other people's reviews about how the whole army isn't being called to arms and how her job doesn't seem to fit. But I liked the character still.

4 Istvan was brilliantly written, but I guess I just like the more noble, good-hearted characters more than the creepers.

5 Grainger - Mostly just ranked at 5 because of the confusion, and not a lot of attention on Grainger's inner personality. It was still pretty well-written. I think the Yew Guards were the most difficult to rank.

Merchants:

1  Terry Wellspiller - Such a mild-mannered underdog character with an artistic edge. He just seems like a very interesting and original creature. A wimp even. I like wimpy characters too.

2 Pollux - I liked the conflict and the emotions of this one. The writing was brilliant also. Only reason he's not ranked #1 is that it wasn't clear how he was a merchant at all.

3 Alder Flint - Well-written, dynamic character, but the son thing and his being a little less likeable to me puts him below Pollux on my list.

4 Zevka Blackbriar - Just not as much depth as the others

5 Nyika - I'm not a fan of ghosts and superstitious nonsense. It's like that character in the X-files that had psychic abilities. I hated when she became a main character. I feel like Hermione feels toward Professor Trelawny or Adrian Monk towards the Voodoo priest.
But I also don't like vampires or time travel. So Nyika, it's not bad writing on your part - there are just some particular things that put me off.

[Sycamore]

Ooh, which psychic character in the X-Files that became a main character? It's been a long time since I watched the show so I'm a little rusty.

As far as Grainger goes, I'd like to actually quote Balmafula, whom I think put his app into the best perspective:

On Grainger: A lot of people are tripped up by the NPCs. Usually I am not a fan of a lot of different NPCs in an application, especially knowing that we'll never be seeing them again. But in this case, it really is important to the character. Grainger is the kind of leader who's a father to his men beasts, so he would know and keep track of ALL of the beasts in his charge. It also helps his squad look like it was composed of real individuals and not just a bunch of faceless drones. And, at the end of the day, Grainger is always the focus. I think he's done his job very well. Keep in mind that writers might have to juggle up to at least 8 other characters at the start; it seems Grainger's writer will be able to do that fairly well.

I think we get a lot of insight to Grainger's character through the NPCs. Like Balmafula said, he's like a father figure to them, very respected and admired. He's sheepish and affronted that his company was caught off guard, blaming himself for the mess and putting it on his shoulders, which he should, because he has beasts to take care of and knows their lives are dependent on him. Watch how he handles Ayer's dissent, calm and collected. He shushes Race and deals with Ayers himself, and when the otter continues to be a jerk, Grainger allows it. He doesn't let the others intervene because he knows the blood they'll shed, and he hopes to avoid as much internal fighting as possible. No, Grainger will deal with Ayers on his own time, without peeping toms to spread hurtful gossip. And then, after everything, he elects to take Mock's watch himself.

Grainger is a noble character, one of, if not the most noble in the whole spread.

[Frost]

Hey all,

Just saw Syc's comments, and thought I'd tack mine on to his. It seems to me that Grainger is a lower-level officer who's accepted his position in the guard and WON'T tolerate fighting among his men, even if that means he doesn't get noted for it, since it's not his company or his men. Flax would get the praise for a well-trained troop, even if he's too busy doing other things.

[Vizon]

I guess because I had to re-read it so much just to keep beasts straight it felt like he hadn't handled so many beasts very well...but that probably has a lot to do with the word limit. Most stories don't throw ALL the new characters all at once at you like that, but rather take their time on each so that the reader can remember who is who. Of course Grainger couldn't do that and he did do the best he could within the limit - but seeing as there was such a strict limit...perhaps a less chaotic scene could have been chosen (since the number of characters would be confusing enough as it was). With the added confusion of a battle aftermath plus wounded beasts being rushed in, it just added to the difficulty in reading through it smoothly. It wasn't an easy read is all, and so since the other guards apps were so much easier to follow, it felt like his wasn't as well-written. Perhaps this is deceiving, but it's what stuck with me.
If I were truly ranking only according to heroics and nobility, I'd have put him at least above Istvan, but I had to take more than just likability into account when it came to the Yew Guards, because honestly I did find them all to be favorable.

The X-files person I was referring to was "Monica." Think of me as more of a "Doggett" empathizer.

[Balmafula]

Also, something I've picked up on (not just in this thread)...

On character's being overpowered:

Risk reminds me too much of newbie warrior characters I used to see walking around the ROC who kill easily and seem to be a bit invincible

Let's actually take a look at his application. He kills three guys, three guys who were not prepared to fight him for the most part and who seem to be way weaker than he is. The last guy doesn't even try! It's clear that they're poorly trained. Risk is strong. He's comfortable with fighting and those guys weren't. If an entire platoon of highly armed guards ambushed him and he killed all of them and came out of it without a scratch, then we could talk about him being invincible.

I've noticed some people talking this way about Istvan, too. I think this is a trend amongst contests of late: If a character is good at something, especially fighting, they are very quickly called twinks, overpowered, or invincible. Istvan and Risk certainly aren't any of those things: they're just good at fighting and intimidation. But they're both held back: Risk is easily bossed around by those weaker than him and Istvan has his own (twisted) sense of morals.

[Sycamore]

Ugh. Doggett. That's why. I stopped watching the series around his time, haha.

I don't mean to fault you, Vizon, just offering another opinion on the matter. Grainger is not an easy read, no. You have to sit down and follow along carefully because like you said, he throws a lot of information to you at once. I'll admit, I had some trouble with his app, too, but that's because I was breezing through it. Once I sat down and focused on the prose, it seemed to flow pretty well in my opinion.

And no, you shouldn't rank only according to heroics and nobility. There're many other factors to take into consideration, such as the ability to interact well (or poorly if you want conflict, hee) with others, a variety in terms of character spread, as well as the ability to enjoy what you're reading. Grainger's chivalry is what speaks to me the most, and I did enjoy his app, so that's why he finds himself pretty high (or low??) on my list.

[Vizon]

Well "reminds" is the key word there, Balmafula.

I am sure I could be very wrong about many of these characters and what ranking they deserve. Except for Honeydouble, I tried not be too influenced by what others have already said and go with my initial impressions, which were formed before I read anyone else's reviews.
I am a very indecisive person IRL, so I could be easily argued into changing my rankings throughout the week. But then my decisions wouldn't be based on what I really thought so much as who made the most convincing defense and what I thought by the time the votes were due. Since people are trying to keep hidden who is who (in regards to writers), I am uncertain each app would be defended as well as it could be (without forming suspicions). So I guess I thought if I am going to be biased, I wanted it to be my own biases. Maybe that's not a good way to go about it.

Anyway, I'm certainly not saying this his how everyone should rank them. I just wanted to give reasons why I ranked the way I did. But maybe I jumped the gun and should have waited to hear out everyone's arguments like a real judge. After all, first impressions are not always the best way to make decisions. Ha! But then again - isn't that exactly what we're doing? Judging based on first impressions of a character? There could be so much more said about each of these individuals that might change how we view them entirely. But they only get one (750 word) first impression. All you can do as a writer is hope that you've made a good one, and that the mistakes you made might be overlooked or outweighed by the strengths.

Sycamore: In regards to X-files - I started watching when Doggett first joined the cast, so I think that's why I sympathized most with him. If I'd started at the very beginning I'd have sympathized with Scully, since she was the practical voice back then, contrasted against Mulder's kookiness. By the time I started watching though, she'd become a believer and was convinced of many crazy ideas that neither I nor John Doggett were quite ready to go along with. But dang it he was a GOOD GUY, even if he was in way over his head and got knocked unconscious in almost every episode. :P

Plus he was T1000.

[Sycamore]

Well, the reason I like to argue is for exactly this purpose: I want you to vote for my favorites. XD

[Vizon]

Can't fault you that, Sycamore. You made a good case for Grainger, just so you know. I'd rank them all the same if I could, to tell you the truth. I like all the Yew Guards.
Well...maybe Istvan is a bit too creepy, but the writing is quite good. I don't fear this guy is going to try to out-macho all the other players at least (which IS a fear I have with some of the other applicants).

[Balmafula]

Sycamore's reasons are pretty similar to my own. I can't help it, I wanna fight for the characters I like!

[Frost]

Jumping back in...

Balmafula made a good point about overpowered characters: it becomes difficult--almost tedious--to read average, run-of-the-mill characters. They can become predictable, and often there's very little discovery to their character path. I'm not saying you can't write an average character, but most readers won't get very far if he/she always does the right thing, or always flies off the handle in some explosion of expository nonsense while twirling their moustache. Part of the joy of reading is escaping from monotony, which is why a competition like this is so much fun.

It reminds me of an episode of Futurama, when a movie audience got to vote and choose what Calculon would do in a certain situation. The funny thing was, the audience voted for him to do the tedious paperwork, instead of engaging in a violent laser battle, and that's what he did! But who goes to movies to watch a guy do paperwork?! Aside from films based on Grisham novels, that is.

Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, and each character should have faults to compliment their strengths, but I wouldn't dismiss someone who's able to kill easily, or someone who's quick on their feet and able to deduce things...readers cheer for heroes and villains alike, and having them be great at being good or bad isn't a bad thing. I prefer it, myself. But that's my two cents!

[Rousseau]

On Grainger: A lot of people are tripped up by the NPCs. Usually I am not a fan of a lot of different NPCs in an application, especially knowing that we'll never be seeing them again. But in this case, it really is important to the character. Grainger is the kind of leader who's a father to his men beasts, so he would know and keep track of ALL of the beasts in his charge. It also helps his squad look like it was composed of real individuals and not just a bunch of faceless drones. And, at the end of the day, Grainger is always the focus. I think he's done his job very well. Keep in mind that writers might have to juggle up to at least 8 other characters at the start; it seems Grainger's writer will be able to do that fairly well.

To be honest, Grainger probably would have been my number 5 in the Yew Guards had Balmafula not said that about his application. And after reading it a second time, I really agree with him. However, the Yew Guards is still a very strong category and I'm still on the fence about my choices for it. Grainger sounds like a good character from this perception, so I actually am thinking about putting him at least on my number 2. Istvan's overall writing and unique character is probably what's going to make him my 1 however.

Sycamore's reasons are pretty similar to my own. I can't help it, I wanna fight for the characters I like!

And that's what these discussions are for, to get the best, most liked cast as possible. I'm all for debates, I like to argue (debate classes in high school have made me that way) as it really does help show the other side of things and find the good things in characters you don't like that someone else does, and the bad things in the characters you like. I'm all for Alder being one of the winners of the Merchants, but the other reviews have convinced me that I think the NPC package deal is risky and will need to be pulled off well if he's going to succeed, even if I am a fan of his overall character.