Cogitating

[Cricket Argyll]

Yes, it's a real word! =P

Anyway, I figure we need a proper speculation thread here, so I'll start off. The look of the RV:5 logo and the name 'Mirage' give an impression of heat. Possibly this will take place in a desert? Where else do creatures commonly have mirages? Or perhaps it has to do with visions? Are we once more attempting to delve into the spirit realm of Redwall, as with O:M? If so, I hope this one will be a bit more successful in its follow-through.

As for the creatures we'll be getting... I wonder how the species divide is going to shape up. With no set categories we may see a disproportionately large number of goodbeasts or vermin. I think there will be a lot of otter apps because who doesn't love an otter? Squirrels and hares will also probably get fair play and on the vermin side most of the weasel family. I don't see rats and mice receiving as much attention, and definitely not moles or hedgehogs (though the latter has more of a fighting chance as compared to the former). Also interested to see how the sex ratio turns out. Redwall is fairly liberated when it comes to male and female stereotypical roles, but I know a lot of people love the male arm chair villain and dashing hero archtypes. Ages are another variable. Most likely we'll get the adventuring-age (teens to late 20s) crowd with a sprinkling of beasts on the high and low end.

Occupations and locations? Crickets! With as open as this contest is sans the teaser, we could have anything. Reminds me of ROC:S3 in that respect. There really wasn't a teaser, just a paragraph that Roxy made up that you had to finish out for your writing sample. I hope we see some traditional jobs mixed in with the more unique ones. Warriors, bards and healers are always fun, even with such exotic opportunities as male dancers and beggars.

[Cairn Destop]

I too had the idea of a desert setting.  If that is true, then there are a lot of possibilities for new and/or exotic contestants.  For example, we could see another mongoose, one that inhabits the deserts - aka - the meerkat.

Otters might be one species that wouldn't fit in this contest.  A desert infers a lack of water.  I now live in a desert and am yet to see real rain.  All we get is a heavy waterfall for twenty minutes that disappears after an hour.  The rivers are nothing but dried sand.  No lakes or ponds. 

Consider the meaning of the word "mirage."  This might be referring to a deception.  We are given one scenario when reality is going to be something else.  Perhaps our questors are going to prevent an area from becoming a desert.

That is where my mind is going.  At least on first impressions.

[Balmafula]

Otters might be one species that wouldn't fit in this contest.

Otters aren't allowed to travel to other places?  If this contest does take place in the desert, then I would be slightly miffed if all the of contestants just so happened to be living there already. 

I have some suspicions about the whole desert thing as well.  Perhaps it is just because of my hesitancy to believe the "obvious choice", which might be not so smart but nyeh :P

As far as species goes, I hope that we do get at least two beasts who are the same species.  I always love comparing them, and seeing how they interact.  It'll also be interesting to see what the ratio of woodlander to vermin is.  And how many "gray" beasts we're going to get, also.

[Cairn Destop]

There isn't anything PREVENTING otters from joining in the story.  You could do something of the American Wild West theme.  Otters traveling across the desert to a newly discovered forest and/or swampland.

As you said, nothing to prevent traveling.  But like you, I'm thinking those who live in or near a desert environmen would be better suited.  Can you imagine a wolf in his winter coat crossing a desert where the heat is almost half more than what he has ever experienced?  Can you say hypethermia?

[Cricket Argyll]

There are varieties of desert wolves, although they're of a New World variety. The Mexican Wolf is particularly adapted for life in desert environments. If it is set in a desert, I can envision the different species overcoming whatever physical hardships that come their way with relative ease. We had two otters in O:S (which took place almost exclusively in the desert) that made it to the end. I'd say any creature adapted for colder climes would probably just shed to their summer coat. Might be a bit uncomfortably warm still, but nothing they're going to die from.

[Dozystoat]

I do hope there are not many (any) exotics. They tend to be more trouble than they're worth. Either every canon species has to pretend as if it's perfectly natural to come across an unusual species and not be scared of them, or there's a bit of silly confusion and explanation and then whammo, exotic turns out to be as normal as any other character. The idea that you should make your exotic species less awesome so as not to lord it over other characters defeats the purpose of having one in the first place. Just take a normal red fox instead of a desert-dwelling species, spare your fellow writers the discomfort, and spare the readers from having to read "the fennec" about two thousand times.

On a related note, one peeve of mine is people who pretend polecats are some exotic species. Jacques basically made a bit of a whoopsie in calling his ferrets ferrets and pretending the polecat in Malkariss was something else, as ferrets are preeet-t-ty much the domesticated version of these. A real ferret, as we know them, apparently wouldn't last a week in the woods on its own. Hardly any instincts left, see.

As for desert vs. forest/plains/usual Redwall character's home - I say to people working on apps: Ignore it. Tara said somewhere that ret-conning your app is fine. Use your words to focus on the character, not where it is. The location of the story in your app should be only important in giving readers a better idea of the character's upbringing, or serve to illustrate the setting for the NPCs they interact with. For instance, If the foil that brings out your characters dialogue best happens to be an otterwife with strong principals, why not set it in or near an otter holt? If your app focuses on your character being taunted by vermin, stick it in a forest path. As we know nothing about the story, firmly placing your character in any location may break your involvement early. While everyone else posts for two weeks about just getting to the supposed-desert, your character will be waffling about sweating their paws off waiting for the rest of the gang ...

With no set categories we may see a disproportionately large number of goodbeasts or vermin.

HI ALAM  :squirrel:

Also, WE may not.  ;) Seems the judges will be taking care of who gets chosen. No Top 30 (27?) for us; and I'm sure the judges will do their best to see an even amount of species and character styles all around. But ... then again ... there were an awful lot of otters in QBV's pre-story stage, weren't there ...

... I have no further ideas of anything else to speculate on. My entire brain is anti-speculation. I like being totally surprised by everything!

Edit: Oh oh oh. I was talking to a friend and we both sort of realised something and now I have to share it: Please, please, please - if you're going to give your character a job, don't make it their life? Please? Healers don't spend their entire day, or even the most important part of their day, looking for herbs. Assassins don't spend every waking hour grooming their weapons (just most of them). Cooks are not chained to stew pots. Adventurers do like to settle down for a few weeks here and there. Long Patrol Hares ... well. Actually. The Long Patrol is a way of life, so you're excused there. XD But you get the idea. The most boring thing you can do with a character who has an occupation is be that occupation. The girl who works at McDonalds is not only capable of being a fry-cook. A bank teller doesn't constantly think about sorting change and new ways to improve customer services. What they do is not who they are; remember that when making a character.

[Cairn Destop]

Just take a normal red fox instead of a desert-dwelling species, spare your fellow writers the discomfort, and spare the readers from having to read "the fennec" about two thousand times.

Okay, scratch one application idea and toss into file 13.

[Ember Nickel]

With no set categories we may see a disproportionately large number of goodbeasts or vermin.

HI ALAM  :squirrel:

Also, WE may not.  ;) Seems the judges will be taking care of who gets chosen. No Top 30 (27?) for us; and I'm sure the judges will do their best to see an even amount of species and character styles all around.

I'm also guessing that we'll wind up with a fairly even range of species/genders/ages.

I love how the application asks "will you have problems posting after the 22nd or so" as I will be moving/adjusting to a completely new schedule around the 22nd or so.  :-\ So I'm sort of scared to apply.

[Wolverine]

I would personally be a tad un-excited by the prospect of a desert contest. I believe both QBIII and OS took place in the same one, so doing a third venture into the same spot would be really hard to do creatively, methinks.

That being said, how awesome would it be to have a Jerbilrat or a Painted One in the competition? (Or even a Wearet, if you felt really bold.)

[The Jerk]

Eh.  'Fraid I'm with Dozy on that one - exotic species aren't so great in my book.  Exploring species that are generally neglected, on the other hand, or writing them from a different angle, can be awesome.  I pretty much hated most of the moles, hedgehogs, voles, badgers, and toward the end, shrews, in the Redwall series.  Granted, badgers are ANYTHING but neglected, but the point still stands, I rarely read about one that I like.  :P  It would make me FAR happier to see someone take one of those and make me fall in love with it than if someone wrote a Wearet.  And, you know, that goes for any species, really; I'm far more likely to appreciate a fresh take on a squirrel than I am a crossbreed. 

(Aside from which, everyone knows that jerbilrats are only good when dipped in chocolate and eaten!  Really.)

I think we're all being fooled by the "Mirage" personally!  Wouldn't it be just classic if everyone wrote desert-dwelling characters and then had to whisk them off somewhere else?  :P  But really.  Location should really have very little to do with the character, I think.  If you want to write a desert-dwelling creature, that's fine, that's great.  But do it because it works for the *character*, not because you think, "Oh, hey, I bet this is taking place in the desert, so if I have a character already THERE, that just means I won't have to give background on how the character GETS there!" 

My two cents on it, anyhow.   ;)

[Dirgecallers]

Hmmm...I see the possibility for different species turnouts this go-round. Might I say one thing? Foxes and Pine Martens are done to death on the vermin side. There are THREE pine martens in the entire redwall series! How they became so popular in the ROC i really dont know. ...

Weasels have had some showing, but I dont recall seeing them in any contest recently. I dont know why...and then there's ferrets. I think there was actually a 'male ferret' category for Redscape but I dont recall seeing a ferret in the top 10. I wonder why that was?  Hmmm...of all the mustelids, I think that weasels and ferrets are most underepresented.

Oh yeah...snakes. Redscape has shown our first ever snake character in the ROC. I think most people would rather write monitors then lizards/snakes, and I completely understand. However, snakes can have a range of emotions that other species simply do not have. I'd be interested in say...an adder or something akin to that.

Birds, lets talk about birds. Well birds in survivor contests seem to be varied and diverse. This is also true for redwall canon as well. I liked Reese in QB5, I really did. With birds its a little tricky to deal with their...complexities. I mean, its hard to trap them, since they can just fly away and stuff. Some birds are sentient and some are not in canon, and writers have to take that into consideration. Still, I will LOVE forever the person who takes a seagull and makes him into a convincing, moving character.

Ah..bats. bats. Bats. Why must you gets so little love? I personally think bats could be included more in the books than they currently have been. I think the whole 'nocturnal' thing throws everybody off. I have a bat character that I rp sometimes, and I do like him. Unlike normal mammals he gets to fly around where the birds do and travel faster. I guess what puts people off of them is the fact that they are so small....

A few words about...

1) Seals/ Sealions. Hard to write for, and I dont think its been done. An obvious handicap would be never being able to leave the ocean for one. Impossible to incorporate that into a deseret setting of course. ;)  Only would really work in a ocean based contest, which is probably never going to happen.

2)Rabbits-I personnaly think they went extinct with Cosbro(Loamhedge) about four books back. They aren't 'just like hares' no matter what anybody says. They are very different. Its difficult to get a 'sense' of them because they show up so infrequently.

3)Wildcats/ Wolverines- Be careful here. Its pretty easy to g-mod with a wolverine if you dont know what you're doing. Ikarus from Redscape is the only wolverine known to the ROC right now, and hes doing a pretty good job. I would say that if youre going to write a wolverine DONT use Gulo as the reference guide. Wildcats are similar to wolverines in that they are ripe for abuse. Canonicity (if its a mossflower contest) is also in question. I seem to recall that by the time of High Rhulain they were saying that 'Cats hadnt been seen in Mossflower for ages'.
(Which makes Sandigom's appearance in Mossflower all that more interesting. How did Gingivere find her so fast?)

4)Sables. Going to be canon in February when the new book comes out. Havent heard the news? Go read the Redwall Wiki.

Thats all. Leave your comments at the door.

[Opal]

I have to agree with our Stoaty too. And I'd advise you not to worry too much about creating a character just so it fits whatever setting you believe it's going to be in, because all anyone can do at this point is speculate about that anyway. One of the main reasons there is no teaser is so you can create whatever character you'd like to write about most. Their actual roles in the story can be decided later, and are generally based upon characterization anyway.

I think O:S is the only one in a desert. QBIII takes place in the south as well, though from the summaries I just read two minutes ago it looks like it's kind of all over the place (Atherton, Malkariss, etc.). XD

There are THREE pine martens in the entire redwall series! How they became so popular in the ROC i really dont know. ...

Probably the fwuffy tails. ;D

[Wolverine]

3)Wildcats/ Wolverines- Be careful here. Its pretty easy to g-mod with a wolverine if you dont know what you're doing. Ikarus from Redscape is the only wolverine known to the ROC right now, and hes doing a pretty good job. I would say that if youre going to write a wolverine DONT use Gulo as the reference guide.

I'd say at this point, folks, don't even bother with a wolverine. Just getting Ikaras into the right part of the world took me two solid days of creative thinking, and it'd be really hard to justify another one.

And as for the ferret in RedScape, I think what wound up happening was that every ferret author in the top 30 won a different category, and chose to play as the other character. One of the many ways in which RedScape has turned out to be a really interesting contest that everyone should read.  ;D

EDIT: I apparently need to learn how spell my own character's name correctly.

[foxpen]

I think that, if we could be sure the setting was to be a desert, we'd have a lot of sandy-based species running around, and it would be interesting. It wouldn't be Redwall, but an anthro-based contest could be cool, too.

Coyotes would be an interesting species to see in a desert, but then again, I don't recall there being too many deserts in the UK, where Jacques has based his stories, or even too many in the books. Except that one from Mattimeo...and, then again, Ublaz's island was tropical...fuh...and the Egyptian vulture Khalfani clearly proved that where the creature starts off and where it ends has no matter.

Eh. If people want to 'go exotic', it can be REALLY interesting (Kamilah...not that monitors are -very- exotic, but hey...), or it can be VERY disappointing to both reader and writer alike. Certainly, it will be conflicting. Same goes for success. Where Khalfani  placed, Kamilah was knocked out very quickly. Then you have that hampster whose name I forgot...hrmmm

[Balmafula]

You know what?  Speaking of species, it would just make my heart go pitter pat to see a rat in here.  I don't know why I like rats so much, but they tend to be one of the more neglected species.  It was nice to see two of them ending up in the cast of QBV, even if one didn't make it so long (poor Keero!)

As for bats, I think a lot of people are intimidated by them for along the same reason as why they're intimidated by moles.  Its canon for the bats to echo themselves, but it's easy to see how that could get annoying if used in excess, and you're gonna be in a heap of trouble if you get it wrong.  The aforementioned moles get it worse, though.  Not only do you have to master the dialect, but in a world of sleek, agile, powerful adventurers, nobody wants to get stuck with the little trundling mole.  A shame, that; I could see it used to so many advantages. 

Hedgehogs need more love as well. *nod*

And pine martens... well, they're just so lovable it's impossible NOT to want to be one :D