Let's Talk About Romance!

[Stonewall]

Mmm, worms in a can! I think I'll... share it with everyone!

Romance is one of those things in these contests that are either saluted or smoten. Be it fwuffy mustelid romance, interspecies romance, or Ashpaw and Calamity romance, everyone has an opinion on the subject. So, boys and girls, what would you like to see in this Redventure on the subject of romance?

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of romance. I remember yelling "NO!" at my computer during the Ashira/Silus scare. I find, especially with evil characters, that it adds mere frills to the character, rather than having any integral purpose to their development. It comprimises the bad-guy's bad-guyness, if you will. And sometimes, romance betweem characters feels just thrown out there for intereaction, and as I said before, could be removed from the character without hindering their development at all. It might sound heartless, but characters should not fall in love unless their future depends on it. No teen-girl fantasies or (shudder) shipping.

Now, with that said, if you can pull it off in a manner such as, say, a warrior with nothing left to live for finds a sweet heart and gives him a new bearing on life, than go nuts. But you'll have to get me on  your side, first.

[Jarrtail]

Hm. True, that genre is best avoided unless you can pull it off REALLY well. Still, romance is an integral genre in all kinds of writing. It's just one of the hardest to write.

[Nallmian]

I have no objection to relationships between characters and either other characters or NPCs.  The catch is that it has to A)  Make sense and not be super abrupt (this was my problem with Ashira/Silus) and B)  Actually be interesting to read.  I don't want a situation wherein the characters just start snogging randomly.  I want to see a buildup in their interactions, and for their behavior to reflect that this is a possibility.  Also, the characters should ideally have some sort of chemistry or interest.  In short, character love or lust is fine with me so long as it requires a minimal level of suspension of disbelief and is both logical and entertaining.

As for interspecies...it really depends.  On the one paw, with species that are physically similar and live in close proximity to one another (weasels and ferrets, for instance), I don't mind that much as long as it meets the above rules.  Let's face it, vermin hordes are probably not distinguished by their rigid codes of member conduct.  On the other paw, I definitely don't like it when it involves species that seem totally mismatched.  No badger/rat or weasel/hare, for instance.

[Magical Fish]

I agree with Stonewall! Er, but then, I generally do...

Anyway, I mentioned this at Redscape, but I do not go for any romance between contestants. I think it's generally just a gimmick, and ends up alienating other characters. However, I am sometimes ok with romance between a contestant and an NPC. As long as a contestant's entire character does not hinge on his/her romance with an NPC and is not the focal point of his/her posts, it's ok. Romance just involves so much agonizing, contemplating, and thinking in general that it slows things up and draws focus away from the actual story.

And interspecies is never ok. Never, ever, ever. Nallmian, I see your point about similar species, but my question would be: why couldn't the author just use another weasel, or stoat, or whatever? Having the romantic partner be of a different species just because smacks of gimmickry.

Just my opinion.

[Nallmian]

I do certainly understand concerns about gimmickry, and admittedly it is something that I believe most people would have difficulty pulling off.  My perspective is probably affected by having some exposure to non-Redwall anthro works. 

[IPlanToBiteYou]

There may be moonlight, and music, and love and romance...

[PotentialContestant]

Weeelll.....

Romance is a little unfair to the other contestants, as it sometimes influences reader vote positively just to "see what'll happen". I know that's the point of these contests, but really: birdies? No romance. Old characters? No romance. Dibbuns? Thankgodnoromance. In a contest like this, it is the author's 'fault' they didn't pick a twenty-something lithe, charismatic character. In the case of, say, QB2? Not as fair.

And interspecies is almost common enough in the ROC world to no longer be a gimmick. Like good vermin.

[Ulrick Hammerpaw]

On the other hand, a character that starts to shoehorn in a romance with another character usually starts getting my votes for death. So it doesn't always work out for them.  :P

[PotentialContestant]

True, it -can- be a double-edged sword. But it usually isn't.

[Captain Ashpaw]

I'm probably going to get myself in some degree of trouble by commenting in this thread at all.  But, here's a slightly unusual take:

There's one thing I tried to do in QBV that has been largely ignored in these sorts of contests.  (No, not THAT.  Well, yes, that.  Fine.  Two things.)  

I wrote a relationship that was just there, instead of being a Big Deal for the plot, and I think that's underdone, which is a shame.  After all, though they're vitally important to the personalities of the people in them, RL relationships don't often bear too much on the "plot," so to speak.  

P.S. PotentialContestant, I like the (sarcastic, if I'm judging correctly) use of the word lithe there...  :D

[PotentialContestant]

Thankee, Ashpaw. And, yes, it was sarcastic.

I hates that word.

[IPlanToBiteYou]

What about svelte? :P

[PotentialContestant]

Now, see, I like svelte. Svelte is like Lithe, but it knows that it's smarmy.

[Nallmian]

Thankee, Ashpaw. And, yes, it was sarcastic.

I hates that word.

Oh!  Oh!  I think I know who you are now!  Lessee, I know SOMEBODY mentionede hating the word lithe before...if only I could remember who it was...grah!  It's right on the tip of my memory.

[Dozystoat]

Fetrikh and Anora were the best couple ever. Anora totally thought Fetrikh was a peeping-tom jerk, and the best thing about it, Fetrikh was. It was adorable.

And they were both stoats (however freakish Fetrikh was to be constantly in his winter coat.)

And then, sometimes, there's just a bit of ... spark between two characters, that neither of them seem to realise. Rufelle and Reilch were a nice example of this. Different species of corvid, so we didn't take it anywhere, but there was definitely ... something. XD (It helped that Reilch's author was, at the time, my very best ladyfriend ever...) Then there was Rufelle's pining after other ravens, and other ravens pining after Rufelle - with her ignoring them because she's an idiot. I thought that was all very well done and in character. But maybe it was just another high school drama re-enactment.

I had pretty high tolerance for Ashy/Cally. I guess the interspecies thing didn't bother me because, hey, if you're going to swing that way in the first place, does it matter if you stick to the same species?

But for straight romances, I very, very very very much prefer the species to be the same. Seems to me that animals - especially in Redwall - generally only look for mates so they can reproduce*, despite the philanderer characters that have been popping up recently.

One must also think of the character's long-term goals as well as short-term goals. If, in the course of the story, the character finds a potential mate and, through the story, sees how good this other creature is, how strong and smart and brave and good at survival they are, then why not try to create a little tension in the meanwhile? Sure, the setting of the story is not often a good place to instigate very thorough romance (thank you, Ashy!), but when it's done and if they're both alive ... And then again, if the story takes a long time to finish, months or seasons for the characters, then is it not rather logical they'd take it further, when days and weeks go by in which nothing much of anything else is happening?

(This post been brought to you by Dozystoat, Who Suspects He May Have Gone Half Deaf Overnight and Feels Somewhat Tilty Because of It.)


* There is, in fact, quite some evidence against this type of thinking in the real world. But in general. And in Redwall...