600!?

Started by Dozystoat, September 10, 2009, 04:39:47 AM

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Jarrtail

It's really hard to deceide what's the proper balance of good character and good writing, isn't it? Glad I don't have that job...

Magical Fish

Wolverine, considering the rave reviews your prose is getting at Redscape, I think you're on the right track!

Adverbs are hardly the devil, it's just become trendy to pretend that they are.
Best in the world.

Jarrtail

True. Balance is everything.

Captain Ashpaw

Well, most of this thread is assuming that a large number of words is necessary to show off good writing.  I would say that's definitely not true.  600 is more than enough; honestly, 500 is more than enough.  Characterization is the limiting factor, I'd say.  You need more words to characterize better. 

Look at QBV, for example.

Thalon's application was the shortest (~250), and showed off his writing very nicely but lacked characterization.  The judges picked him (which I admit I'd not have done, but it turned out well!)... and they picked him over my ~750 word application, which had to go to the audience vote to get in. 

Or, you can look at the final word counts and results:

Meadowbrook: 40912, tied for second
Reese: 37219
Liam: 32134
Thalon: 29734, tied for second
Ashpaw: 26167, first

Not that I'm saying I was necessarily the best writer, but I did manage to win while writing 14000 fewer words than MB.  For whatever that's worth.  And I think my last post, covering a skirmish, the truce, and a huge swatch of character development... well, it weighed in at just over 3000 words, in comparison with Thalon's post before that, which at over 6000 words covered less ground.  Style differences happen. 
---

So all that said, I don't think balance is the issue.  It'll be harder for people with more verbose styles to pack an equal amount of characterization into 600 words, but that's not a reflection on the quality of the writing.  Verbose people will just be a little worse off in this type of application. 
Writer, linguist, QBV winner, general snarky critic.  I go by Brookmere at Terrouge and some other places...

Currently reading:
Prayer Has Spoiled Everything, Adeline Masquelier
Thomas the Rhymer, Ellen Kushner

Cairn Destop

Imagine if they used the rule in QB-2.  Our limit was 500 words.  The administrator cut off anyone's application that exceeded that length at the first punctuation mark following the 500th word.

Can remember lots of howling over that announcement.  As noted in an earlier comments, different counters come up with different numbers for the same work.  Had a lot of people worried.

And as our good captain noted, length doesn't equate with skill or placement.  Our shortest writer, Rystan, outdid us all when the final vote came.  Think my word count almost doubled her total.

Just remember an application must be written tight.  You'll have the opportunity to expand once you are selected.
In life, the only thing that ever adds up is a column of numbers.

Captain Ashpaw

Quote from: Cairn Destop on September 12, 2009, 07:42:07 PM

Go through the story and imagine yourself a movie director.  Ask yourself how many scenes are in this thing.  You should come up with quite a few.  Now write a short summary of each scene.  (No more than one sentence.)  Ask yourself which scene showed off your character best.  Discard everything else.

This is exactly right, and it's a thread that runs through a lot of successful applications of the "short character sketch" style.  Another closely related strategy is to show a single important turning point for a character.  I've done this a few times--QB2's Brookmere and RV3's Theo come to mind.  Brookmere betraying his family and friends and Theo's first kill were transforming moments. 

After all, if some character trait is important to understanding a character, then what can show it off better than writing the scene in which it arose? 

For another example from me in QBV... the scene where Ashpaw and Cally's relationship began, I've written, though (most of) you haven't seen it. 
Writer, linguist, QBV winner, general snarky critic.  I go by Brookmere at Terrouge and some other places...

Currently reading:
Prayer Has Spoiled Everything, Adeline Masquelier
Thomas the Rhymer, Ellen Kushner

Magical Fish

Quote from: Captain Ashpaw on September 15, 2009, 12:33:01 PM
Well, most of this thread is assuming that a large number of words is necessary to show off good writing. 

I don't believe anyone has said that, actually. Only one person has felt that the 600 word limit was too little. The rest of us have just been expressing our love for descriptive language. In small doses, of course.
Best in the world.

Captain Ashpaw

You don't have to say it explicitly to assume it.  

People are assuming that quality of writing style, characterization, and word count are in conflict somehow.  And I think that's wrong:

Quote from: Jarrtail on September 14, 2009, 06:31:40 PM
It's really hard to deceide what's the proper balance of good character and good writing, isn't it?

Quote from: Dozystoat on September 14, 2009, 01:42:26 AM
Otherwise, the space used up to avoid them is detracting from space better spent saying something of actual importance about the character.

And I, for one, am going to be ticked if I lose out to someone who, instead of putting forth an interesting beastie, wowed the judges with flowery prose.
Writer, linguist, QBV winner, general snarky critic.  I go by Brookmere at Terrouge and some other places...

Currently reading:
Prayer Has Spoiled Everything, Adeline Masquelier
Thomas the Rhymer, Ellen Kushner

Magical Fish

I don't think it's a case of right or wrong; it's just something people are struggling with.

Obviously there doesn't have to be sacrifice on either end. It's perfectly possible to write a solid, short piece that showcases a good character with equally good writing. But that doesn't always happen. As has been brought up, a lot depends on the audience. What do they like? What are they looking for? Sometimes a judge or reviewer is more inclined to favour stylistic choices over character, and vice versa. It's the same as writing a college paper-- how do I say what I want to say while making the professor value it? It's tricky, and I think it's smart for writers to be aware of possible shortcomings. I don't think anyone is saying that character, style, and word count are naturally in conflict, but they do sometimes conflict when one is trying to enter a competition.
Best in the world.

Wolverine

I'd say that while they aren't necessarily in competition with each other, it can be really tricky to hit a good balance of all of the criteria.

Given that this is something like the eighteenth survival fic on the ROC, I'd say unique characterization has a slight edge over prose, especially when you consider that the majority of the judges have extensive knowledge of the previous contests. They've seen (and judged) a lot of this stuff before, so you could theoretically win a slot just for being inventive.

That being said, inventive is a fine line to walk. Psychopathic alcoholic 600-pound albino flying squirrels are still probably a bad idea.
Pre-emptively cheering on the following top nine names: Cyrus, Whiver Bean, Greenfang, Elin Sarkozy, Deadtail, Hazenval, Eliza Lacrimosa, Damask the Minstrel, and Alethia.

Opal

Quote from: Wolverine on September 15, 2009, 03:41:46 PM
That being said, inventive is a fine line to walk. Psychopathic alcoholic 600-pound albino flying squirrels are still probably a bad idea.

Aww, but I was hoping to get nine of those... :(
"I've got a plan so cunning you could put a tail on it and call it a weasel." - Blackadder the Third

Cairn Destop

Quote from: Wolverine on September 15, 2009, 03:41:46 PM

That being said, inventive is a fine line to walk. Psychopathic alcoholic 600-pound albino flying squirrels are still probably a bad idea.


Another application idea religated to File 13.

That's it, I'm filing an official protest.  Somebody on this forum has hacked into my computer and is stealing my ideas.  Everyone would have loved my lady Bulwinkie as a vampire bat who faints at the sight of blood.
In life, the only thing that ever adds up is a column of numbers.

Jarrtail

Quote from: Lady Tara Starblade on September 15, 2009, 04:09:14 PM
Quote from: Wolverine on September 15, 2009, 03:41:46 PM
That being said, inventive is a fine line to walk. Psychopathic alcoholic 600-pound albino flying squirrels are still probably a bad idea.

Aww, but I was hoping to get nine of those... :(

That would be an interesting contest, for sure.

Orion

Quote from: Jarrtail on September 15, 2009, 08:08:41 PM
Quote from: Lady Tara Starblade on September 15, 2009, 04:09:14 PM
Quote from: Wolverine on September 15, 2009, 03:41:46 PM
That being said, inventive is a fine line to walk. Psychopathic alcoholic 600-pound albino flying squirrels are still probably a bad idea.

Aww, but I was hoping to get nine of those... :(

That would be an interesting contest, for sure.

I'm seeing huge, lumpy pillows descending from the sky to lollop around the place.

IPlanToBiteYou

Balance is good, but I'm awful at it. :D
*bite*