How do people feel about the complexity of the posts?

[shorestar]

I'm curious if my impression is mirrored by many here.

I'm finding the number of characters (player characters and npcs) involved in this story somewhat overwhelming, and the span of time/action covered by each post a bit too large. It seems like every post under goes multiple "scene changes."

If there were only 3-4 authors involved at this point, I'd love the post length. But with 8, to me it just seems to be making the story disjointed and decreasing the authors' focus on their own characters. And, just possibly, decreasing the care taken with individual sentences and paragraphs.

Does anyone else feel they'd enjoy the story more with shorter, more focused posts? Or is this just me?

[Ashira]

Well, if you've read all my reviews you'd find that for the most part I am enjoying the posts.  It's only when they've been rushed that I feel things have gotten sloppy.

I'd say they're at the correct length: not too long to feel a drag but not too short that I feel like I didn't read anything at all.

[Revel]

I don't know yet which I prefer.

Recently I found out that one thing on my fellow writers' minds is that we're nervous about staying in one place too long, in case you readers get sick of the setting. I remember one or two people saying we had spent too long on the ship for example. Imagine if the next few posts were still in the slave ditch!  :P

In addition to Shorestar's question, I'd like to know what readers consider a filler post. I feel like my own chapters haven't been moving the plot forward very much, but where is the balance between characterization, set-up for the next person, and overall plot movement?

[Cairn Destop]

Hedgehog prepared for enough smiting to put him in negatives by three digits.

**************************


All excellent questions.  I do believe the comment about the ship is misplaced.  The readers felt that way in QB-5, not this contest.  How could the audience get tired when the cast remained on the ship less than a week? 

From my viewpoint, the first week was a waste.  The one thing done was an introduction of characters.  The cast did nothing more than retell the prologue.  With the first week done, everyone can concentrate on the story itself.  In that regard, it is good getting out of the slave ditch fast. 

Yes, there are a lot of characters, but the reader here has an advantage over those reading this like a book.  We all know the principle characters.  That allows us to keep everyone else in the background.

perhaps Shorestar should go back to QB-2.  We had a cast of extras that rivaled the number of main players too.  Yet the main characters managed staying in the foreground by reducing their numbers as we went along and putting the NPC into secondary roles. 

Post lengths are a matter of personal taste.  I have expressed my views on that in QB-5 and the cast did the exact opposite, to the reader's delight.  I still believe the most effective length is between 1800 and 2200 words as it is short enough not to be a strain on the eyes and long enough to affect your character and the overall story.  Our writers should remember that length does not equal quality.  Rystan's average posts were just over a thousand words and she won, 'nough said.

And that brings up the topic of filler posts.  Again I'll use QB-2 as the example.  Rystan did one that let us see into her character and it was very short.  What made it effective was how everyone else moved the story along at a faster pace.  Her post acted as a needed rest for the reader.

Here the writers are dragging their collective butts.  By this time, we should have seen every writer post something.  There should even be a few with second posts.  It isn't happening, which means a filler post will not be seen as character development, but as a drag on the story.  In one word, boring.  So a filler post would be perceived as poor writing and could get a person's character killed.

Best option is to keep the story moving, but offer short introspections or keep chapters focused on your character and how they are interacting with the main cast.  Note I said the main cast.  Sideline characters, the NPC, should become tools to enhance your story; don't give them too much importance.

Until the story establishes its pace, fillers should be avoided.  And just to be sure everyone understands what I mean by filler, I'm referring to any post that goes introspective, or into an historical mode.  Repeating what the reader already knows isn't good unless you're providing additional material relevant to your character's development.



You may now begin smiting.

[Damask the Minstrel]

I'll just smite a little, I promise.

"From my viewpoint, the first week was a waste."

-- I really wish people would drop the first week. We've been over this how many dozen times? It was a miscommunication on top of a relatively new concept. Comparing the prologue post to the first week is like saying a Cliffnotes of The Iliad is equitable to The Iliad. It's not. They aren't the same, and the simple way to not lay hate on us would be to treat the prologue like a teaser. Or, read it chronologically. Or not read it. Whichever makes you happy. But calling the plot and character development of the first week a waste is a base insult to my fellow writers. Please, for the love of Pete (and Paul and Mary, if you like), stop kicking that horse. It's dead.

"Rystan's average posts were just over a thousand words and she won, 'nough said."

-- Not quite "enough said". Rystan was a fantastic writer and very good at being concise. She also was featured heavily in other writers' posts because the character was fun to write and it was easy to write her interactions. Now, take Damask. He isn't featured heavily in others' posts (like, say, Revel is). I have to make up that gap in my posts, or else I will suffer from a lack of face-time. Mind, a good deal of that comes from my being either part of a small group or off as a hostage, but birds are notoriously hard to work into "normal" situations as well. Also, remember the audience has changed. As of QB2, a majority of the ROC (I feel comfortable saying) was young. Early high school would be the average, I would say. Now, however, the average seems to have shifted up a few years. Expectations have changed.

"Here the writers are dragging their collective butts.  By this time, we should have seen every writer post something.  There should even be a few with second posts."

-- You are absolutely right, here. We're not cranking out as much as we should, and I'm sure a big part of that is because of aforementioned age-shift. We expect better work out of ourselves and others, and so the story becomes less like a fleshed-out RP -- which is how QB2 feels to me, looking back -- and more like a collaborative story. And, as has been mentioned, that has good points and bad ones. The story moves slower, but I think the quality of writing in this contest has been very high. In this instance, I cannot say enough good about 'Liza and Bell (sorry to name names, my fellow contestants). I feel those two, technically, have some of the most wonderful writing I have ever read on the ROC.

And, please, give us a little more respect than that, Cairn. I'm mature enough not to click a little "karma" button if I disagree with you.

And, as always, this feedback is appreciated. Well, not the first-week part, but the rest of it. The rest still is.

[Sycamore]

"From my viewpoint, the first week was a waste."

For the record, I liked the first week. I was just upset about how it ended, but I've expressed my feelings enough in that area, I believe. I might go into more detail later, but I'm lacking time right now. So no, Damask, I won't drop the first week, because I enjoyed it.

[Damask the Minstrel]

*poke* I mean stop arguing over it, of course.

[Fern Greenwood]

My only quibble with the complexity of the posts is that, particularly with the last two who posted (Bellona and Eliza, I'm looking at you), there seems to be some confusion amongst even the authors about the NPCs

Eliza was referencing a squirrel with a Highland accent, who was in a position of command. This strikes a chord in my mind with the character Sailpaw, who I thought was a hare. But it also could refer to Bellona by the actions written.

But then I read Bellona's post, and seem to be confirmed in my remembrance that she is not a squirrel, but rather a dormouse.

I can't be the only one having this confusion --or am I?

Complex and convoluted plots are good things, in my opinion. In contrast, creating and thus having to write conversations with and actions for a dozen different NPCs --per author!-- is a recipe for burnout and disaster.

[Damask the Minstrel]

Sailpaw confuses everyone with his accent, don't worry! (There was some behind-the-scenes confusion at first, too).

Sailpaw is the squirrel with the highland accent. Captain. Actually in command.
Bellona is the dormouse, without one. Leftenant. She only seems in command because she comes up with all the really good plans. Or, at least the plans that don't get everyone killed.
Giddy is the young hare who tries to talk like Sailpaw. Hero-worhip and all. (Or, at lest his accent is a little off of the normal hare, that is)

(Hope that cleared it up!)

[Ashira]

Oh c'mon.  The first week is never a waste.  Maybe it could've been handled better(particularly near the end there!), but I did mention in my reviews that I would try not to make my vote of judgment not so much on the content of the first few posts, but mostly on the writing and the character itself.  Those first couple of posts are always going to be back-benders to try to fit your character into the story--unless they miraculously fit like a puzzle piece, which doesn't happen very often.  C'mon, folks, I think almost every single one of us has been in this position before.  We know how demanding it is, so cut the contestants a little slack for week 1.  Yeesh.

However, unlike some contestants though, I managed to post first for three weeks straight.  Get your posts out sooner!  Okay, quality is important lest the reviewers belabor you about your typos, but waiting five days to post after death post is ridiculous.  I would hazard a guess that all the contestants have been in a contest before, so any excuses about life getting in the way is pretty much null and void.  You know how demanding contests are.  Please get your posts out in a timely fashion.

[Sycamore]

*poke* I mean stop arguing over it, of course.

I've really got to start reading the whole thing before jumping the gun.

[Eliza Lacrimosa]

I'm a bit hesitant about jumping into debates like this as a general rule, but since my last post is probably at least partially to blame for staring it, I'll offer my two cents.

Regarding complexity and scene changes: While I totally agree that having long posts that cover far too much ground is a bad thing this early on, sometimes I think it's kind of necessary. F'r instance, in the last Liza post, she was placed into circumstances where her normal methods of behavior simply wouldn't work. Eliza couldn't simply boss everyone around and get her way, and had to resort to not only talking to commoners, but actually working collaboratively with them.

If I had just glossed over these dynamics, ignored her feelings about this, and had her accept these circumstances without any conflict, the post would have been dinged for being unrealistic. Nobody violates their personal standards without feeling some degree of inner struggle.  

But, if I had done nothing but focus on that struggle, without inserting any actual action (a la my second post in round one), then it would be (appropriately) dinged for being "filler."

I think the same applies to Bell's scene changes. Would it really be better to have a lot of sentences along the lines of "and then they kept walking, through more generic tunnel that was just like the tunnel they walked through ten seconds ago" ? I think her post was delightful, and the fact that it cut out all of the unnecessary bits, and simply focused on the relevant action only made it better.

So, in both cases, a longer post was required in order to keep it both credible and interesting. At least, that's my thought on the matter...

EDIT: And, er, Fern. Yes, the squirrel in my post was Sailpaw. I'm pretty certain he's always been a squirrel...

[Sycamore]

But, if I had done nothing but focus on that struggle, without inserting any actual action (a la my second post in round one), then it would be (appropriately) dinged for being "filler."

I hate filler. I hate it more than anything else in the world in these contests. Filler is nothing more than people not getting what they want.

Why would it be appropriately dinged for filler? Because you're focusing on character development? That's idiocy, in my honest opinion. I'm sorry if I'm getting a little passionate, but I think given the restraints of the contest and time frames, it is impossible to create filler.

[Damask the Minstrel]

Oh yeah? *squirts with whipped cream* Filler!

[Jarrtail]

Filler is definitely one of the worst things you can do in a survivor. It pretty much guarantees your voting off. That being said, I have not seen any gratuitous examples of filler posts in this contest. Good job, guys.